'NATO has never brought safety to the world'

Photo:Amineh Kakabaveh Facebook account & Anatolia Agency (AA)

Click to read the article in Turkish

Sweden and Finland formally applied to join NATO yesterday (May 18).

This application also meant the end of the neutrality policy of the Scandinavian country Sweden.

Moreover, the application was made by the coalition government of the Social Democratic Party and the Green Party, which traditionally oppose NATO membership of Sweden.

Only two months ago, these two parties had rejected the calls by Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson for joining NATO.

So, do all parties and deputies in the parliament support Sweden's NATO membership? How did the Swedish government manage the NATO membership process? What were the discussions in Sweden about Turkey's veto on the membership of the two countries?

We talked to Swedish independent MP and Iranian Kurdish politician, Amineh Kakabaveh about all these topics.

Kakabaveh fled to Turkey from Iran as a refugee in the 1990s and then moved to Sweden. She studied social sciences and philosophy at Stockholm University. She has been a member of the parliament since 2008.

Kakabaveh is against NATO membership of Sweden remembering her experiences of war when she was young.

According to Kakabaveh, one of the reasons Turkey's President Erdoğan is opposed to Sweden and Finland's membership of NATO is that he lost popularity in Turkey.,

CLICK-Erdoğan insists Turkey will not approve Sweden and Finland joining NATO

" Erdoğan wants to gain popularity again in the international arena," she said.

Let's listen to the remaining from Kakabaveh's own words:

Sweden and Finland have officially applied for NATO membership. Sweden has been traditionally known for its neutrality and now the application to NATO... I would like to start from the beginning: How do different political parties approach Sweden's NATO membership?

Unfortunately, just the Left Party and the Green Party were against NATO membership. The rest of the political parties were in favor of it. I mean, NATO membership... So, six of the eight parties in the Parliament voted in favor of the membership.

And what was their reason for being in favor of it?

It is because of Russia's war against Ukraine. That has been the main theme. But I know that the right-wing parties in Sweden have been talking about this issue and debating it for many years, since 2014 in particular when Russia invaded other neighbors [Crimea]. Since Russia attacked Ukraine, it has been their reason.

But I know that it is more than just being about Russia. It is because many countries want to sell weapons. And the United States (US) wants Sweden to be in the alliance. [...] Sweden has been very attractive to the US and other NATO countries.

What do you personally think about Sweden's NATO membership?

I am against NATO and war because of many reasons. My one experience from war. I have been against it even when Sweden sends weapons to Ukraine and other countries. We in Sweden have a history of peace and peacemaker and peace diplomatic do the world need not women and Nato. NATO and nuclear weapons bring not the world and the EU more security. We also know that countries like Turkey and others are non-democratic and dictatorships in the alliance. As for Turkey; they have been and are at war with Kurds in both Syria and Iraq. We have many other countries with NATO that are not democratic and Sweden is a democratic country. Sweden has been against nuclear weapons.

I am talking about my own experience as Amineh. We, as Kurds, have been oppressed and attacked by Turkey, Iran, and other countries; we have experienced the war. There are refugees in this country. They have experience in war. That is why I am like many others against war, that is why I am against NATO. We as MPs have not been given the mandate to change Swedish history of 200 years of peace and alliance free. Sweden has been alliance-free for so long and it is very important that it has been free of any alliances. It will be a big mistake if it becomes a member of NATO.

You know that Sweden has a weapon embargo against Turkey. There are many reasons. We, as Kurds, are against Sweden's NATO membership also as a principle of our identity. Sweden, at least on paper, has been alliance-free for 200 years. But now we are with countries. They are dictatorships. They are against their people. How to act with those countries? How can people create peace? Some people are in favor of NATO. They think that it will create security. Now, it is just lying. NATO has never created security and you know the US war against Iraq and the Turkish war against many countries... They are NATO countries. They are maintaining on- security and war in many countries.

What do you think about the government's handling of this whole application process? As far as I have read, there is criticism that there was not enough public discussion before the decision was made...

That is true. Everything went so fast, everything was behind people's backs and they did that because Swedish people... We are in the Parliament and we did not vote for NATO. Sweden is a democratic country and we are not working to change the Swedish security, military, or alliance. It has been like this for 200 years. But now they have done it and I hope that the Swedish people come and remark during the national election in September.

And as you know, Erdoğan has been opposing Sweden and Finland's NATO membership. And how does it resonate with the public and politicians in Sweden? I mean, is it discussed in the media?

Yes, of course. This is discussed every day everywhere and in every media. You know that this is not new. Erdoğan knows that he is not popular. He is unpopular. His popularity and public support for his party have been very low and the economic situation in Turkey is also in a deep crisis, next year, there is an election; so, he does need support.

And that is always typically Erdoğan: When he needs support from his people, he tries to make sure that he gets back support in the international arena. So, this is nothing to listen to very much because he is not a very serious leader.

He is like Putin. If he had the same power as Putin, he would have maintained the Ottoman country, as he always mentions. That is how we know about him. I mean, he wants to maintain the Ottoman Empire if he has the same power as Putin. This is why you should not take him very seriously. And, you know, he wants Sweden to lift the weapon embargo. He wants to come closer to the US and Joe Biden. There are many issues that he wants to have in that case when the membership of Sweden and Finland is being discussed.

So, what do you think Erdoğan will want in exchange for approval for the NATO membership of Finland and Sweden?

According to the news, he wants Finland and Sweden to deport refugees. They fled from his dictatorship and DAESH; there are Kurdish people from the YPG who fought against DAESH and also against Turkey because Turkey attacked Afrin and the Kurdish area. So those people actually fled for their own lives. And he wants to have them, but it is total nonsense. A European country should never do that. Never.

And probably, as I mentioned before, he wants the weapon embargo to be lifted because he wants to be more popular and in closer contact and collaboration with the US, European Union, and Sweden because his war against many countries has stopped many of the relations and contacts. Erdoğan is at war with many other countries in the neighborhood.

CLICK-Will Sweden hand over dissident author to Turkey to become a NATO member?

Is there anything you would like to add?

Erdoğan is unpopular in Turkey and it is the people in Turkey who will decide; they should be aware of it next year: What do they want for Turkey? A Turkey that is related or a Turkey that is open like before? The same Erdoğan had negotiations with the organization that he now calls terrorists. He had negotiations with them. If Turkey wants to have relations with other countries... All the people in jail are politicians, they are journalists... They should be released. The Turkish country needs the people to develop their democracy and their own country. I mean, that will make him more popular. But he is already unpopular; so, that is why he wants to get back to his popularity.

CLICK-What does Erdoğan want from Sweden and Finland for approval of their NATO membership?

(SD/TB)